kerdi membrane over cement board

If done according to manufacturers instructions, it will seal nicely. If you are laying tile on floors that are wavy or out of level, self-leveling underlayment is a great solution. Additionally, all thin-set mortars should be suitable for use in wet or feature depths of up to 1/8 inch. You peeled it off? I have used kerdi, and I have applied it over cement board. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . ;). The drywall's back side fails, and it's just as bad or worse than it was on the tile side. is the contractor creating a waterproof schluter-kerdi shower? Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. The big issue with cement board is that the thinset will skin over really quickly. Our thinset was more watery than the videos, but it still managed to dry out quickly, even in the time it takes to apply the small corners in our shampoo niche. Depending on your project and the specific cement board you are using, you will want to select a thinset appropriate for both.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_15',158,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); The two primary criteria to help guide your selection are the type of cement board you are using and whether you are installing it indoors or outdoors. And by 'booking the Kerdi' I mean we put it in the bathtub, sprayed it with the handshower, then booked it (just like wallpaper). Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. I still wet the walls first. Thanks for contributing an answer to Home Improvement Stack Exchange! Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. Its important to note that Kerdi membrane is not a structural base layer, so plywood should be installed and reinforced as necessary based on load requirements. The Kerdi membrane should be applied with the standard procedure, using a hogg brush or a notched trowel to spread the thin-set mortar and a roller to ensure appropriate adhesion. It fell right off? How did this project turn out? I simply sponge off the excess. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. RedGard On Hardibacker Board. They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. How "tidy" does the kerdi band need to be? . Using modified thinset on KERDI can be tricky and in some cases, it can cause issues. With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! Using cement board and a sheet membrane . if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. When it comes to selecting thinset for cement board, there are a few important factors to consider. What precautions should I take installing tile on a backerboard in an area surrounded by cement? Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. You're correct if you use the shluter kerdi membrane you do not use a vapour barrier since it creates a sandwhich effect that doesn't allow the substrate . The cement board can also become weakened and start to flake away when it absorbs moisture, causing ugly spots and patches to start appearing on the wall. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? Let the mortar dry for 24 hours then test the shower. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. The most important thing to remember when applying the membrane over the cement board is to make sure the surface is clean and free of any debris, dust or other contaminants. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. if you go with vapour barrier, then cement board. . I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? We mixed the thinset, it wasn't as smooth as the utube video, but it was close, and we gave it ten minutes. It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. Preparing drywall for KERDI membrane requires a few important steps to ensure a successful application. The shower is ready for tile. It works well, is what Schluter recommends and I've never had an issue with it. I usually use Durock. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. Kerdi Board is also significantly lighter in terms of weight than cement board, meaning they can be transported and lifted into place with ease evening hauling five panels at a time should be no problem. The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. Fiber cement board is a variation of cement board that is made from compressed cement and sand and reinforced with wood fibers throughout. To create a watertight shower assembly, we installed Schluter's Kerdi membrane over the drywall, just as we would for tile.Write by:. The Kerdi is essentially replacing the backerboard. When applying thin-set mortar, the manufacturers instructions should be followed closely. Thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is best for interior projects, but if youre installing outdoors, you should use thinset with a polymer modified (PM) compound for greater moisture resistance. I set the Kerdi with my hands, pat it into the thinset with my hands, then go over it with a 4" taping knife held at a low angle to embed the Kerdi in the thinset. A place where magic is studied and practiced? What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? A hundred times better to have too much before you comb than too little. A successful tile installation largely depends on the substrate that the tile is attached to. Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. Your Get free, zero-commitment quotes from pro contractors near you. When I tried to use the edge of my trowel [per schlutter video] I could see I was pulling a lot of the 'felt' off the backer. How do I connect these two faces together? Because it can let some moisture wick through it, you have two choices: put a moisture barrier behind it to protect the structure, or, waterproof the front of it. Though, each product comes with its own individual characteristics, and pros and cons. Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. Needless to say, the drywall turned to mush. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? Any recommendations? Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. Tile Shower SurroundCement Backerboard Location? On the 'rolling pin', it actually wasn't the kitchen kind, but rather a very heavy metal roller DH had from some sort of fabrication table. LONDON. I ended up putting up a thin, skim-coat of thinset all over the hardi board, letting it dry, and then putting up the kerdi. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. When I tried putting up the first sheets, which were only 36" x 39", and even though I had SOAKED the hardi, to the point water was pooling on the floor, the thinset was already drying before I got the Kerdi up, and I couldn't get it to adhere properly no matter how hard I tried. link to How To Organize A Bathroom Closet. Can I put Kerdi board over drywall? Like cement board, the boards are heavy and hard to cut. Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. I hang Kerdi on cement board and fibercement board all the time. You don't want to block off the end of the air chanel and trap half a sheet worth of air under there.-Not paying attention to the direction of my knife. vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top, and use a rolling pin to press it down and ensure a secure bond. #2. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. The 30-in. Water-resistant gypsum board, or green board, was used in the past as a tile backer but is no longer recommended, mainly because better products are available. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. Following these steps will help ensure that your shower space is properly sealed, and thus that the cement board is well protected from moisture. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. I used to "trust" the Kerdi and drywall until I had a shower that the valve broke inside the wall cavity four years after being put in. ), Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar is recommended. Spacers are the next step. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. How do you show the depth of a hole in a drawing? #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. . In normal residential use I wouldn't worry about it. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard . However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Once you have selected the right sealer, follow the manufacturers instructions and apply a generous, even coat over the entire surface of the Hardie board. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. The taping knife at a low angle makes an enormous difference, and I'm very grateful for that hint. Their lighter weight makes moving panels around during installation a cinch, which is a far cry from the heft of conventional cement board. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. I think the first one I used was cheap and that was part of the problem. But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. You just need a hammer and wonderbar for the walls. Probably the simplest way is to caulk the gap with 100% silicone or a urethane sealant. We also found that using a heavy rolling pin worked wonders for really setting the Kerdi. First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. Sheets of glass mat gypsum are made from water-resistant silicone-treated gypsum, reinforced on both sides by fiberglass mats. I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. We recommend our users to update the browser. Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. I have to redo my tub surround due to moisture leaks and failing grout. When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar. Cement board is the industry standard when it comes to tile substrates and the most preferred among professionals when installing porcelain or ceramic tile. I also used the Kerdi drain. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . If you do not already have the hardi up, I recommend using real cement board (Hardi is a fiber-cement) or drywall. Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). Once the membrane is in place, it can be sealed and reinforced with Kerdi-Fix sealant, Kerdi band, and Kerdi-Drain for added waterproofing strength. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. A complete schluter shower kit is like $700-$900 depending on the size - this includes the pitched foam shower pan. Mike Holmes uses backer on his show. The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. Ideally the DalSeal TS would fold into the gap between the wall and ceiling concrete board. Once this is done, continue the installation by following the directions for the particular Kerdi product being used. With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. Kerdi-Board is an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with reinforcing material on both sides, covered by fleece webbing for effective anchoring of thin-set mortar. Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. No bulges either, but definetly no thin spots.-Not paying attention to the direction of the comb. Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). @DMoore- OK, I agree that with redguard it would be redundant. The site is called floorelf.com. Hi David. "..2) the kerdi band isn't stuck flat -- the edges in some spots are wavy. Additionally, all thin-set should be allowed to cure for 24 hours before tiles are installed. The main issue caused by non-waterproof cement boards is the eventual warping and damage to the tiles, making it difficult and costly to fix without removing all the tile and starting over. Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. Been clankin' away at this computer for a couple of hours now, guys. To line niche shelves, for instance. Your air bubbles will travel along the valleys you've made, and it's way better if you only have to move them 20 inches to the nearest edge rather than all the way from the ceiling to the floor [Again, Mongo can, but he has mad skills].-Not paying attention to the principle of bedding top down, center out. When I do another shower I'll use real cement board, not Hardi-board. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1','ezslot_17',164,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-mobile-banner-1-0');As an added precaution, you may want to consider to adding a water-resistant layer afterwards, such as a caulking or flashing tape. Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. I also used the Kerdi drain. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top . Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. Step 4: Place the Tile. Bathroom closets are often catch-alls for anything and everything remotely related to self-care. This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. There's a really great manual (with diagrams) that makes this all easier to understand. If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. Cement boards are typically capable of withstanding larger amounts of water, while a Schlter system is designed to hold up well only in dry conditions. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. Once the adhesive has been applied and has had time to properly cure, then the KERDI membrane can be applied to the wall. This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. An extra layer of thinset is then added to the surface of the cement board to adhere the tiles in place. To properly seal a cement board for a shower, its important to first properly prepare the surface. 3. I don't want to use the Ditra membrane product but rather tiles directly over the cement boards. The foam core surrounded by synthetic cloth on both sides and adhered with resin glue is. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. They are available in thicknesses of 3/16, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, 1, 1-1/2, and 2 (5, 9, 12.5, 19, 25, 38, and 50 mm). How long should I wait after painting on the Redgard before I try to reapply the membrane? For the floor, he should've put a mortar bed, then a membrane that goes over the curb, then another mortar bed. Too little, and the kerdi will never show you gray, no matter how you sweat. Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? Sure, you can do it.just be sure to "spritz" or wet the hardi thoroughly before.it's pretty "thirsty.". It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. Blocking should be constant across this area when openings are larger than your fist. I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. Yes, you need waterproofing behind shower tile. Once youre sure that the membrane is completely dry, you can then move forward with tiling. This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. Creative, C'mon over for a beer! For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried . Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. That means that you do not have to rely on a surface membrane or worry about the board failing if the core is exposed to water. Plus, most self-leveling formulas harden very fast, so you have to plan carefully so you can mix and pour quickly. Installation. Finally, use a roller or brush to ensure that the membrane is secure and has no wrinkles or air bubbles. Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. If youre not careful, the boards can also leave behind abrasive sandy crumbs that can cause damage to your shower base or tub. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. :/. I also used a larger sized trowel than the one recommend by Schluter. 120 sq feet including the floor. The colour is different. In a perfect job, it will waterproof. Sweeby-Can you clarify- I undestood that the thinset would tend to dry out from the thirsty hardi or skim over from the air; so how does booking the Kerdi help with the first? What? Learn about the options in exterior siding before you choose, Before you pick up a single tile, pull from these tips for expert results, Slip resistance, curves and even the mineral content of your water all affect which tile is best for your shower, We help a Houzz user ask all the right questions for designing a stylish, practical and safe shower bench, This isn't a light DIY project: You'll need heavy-duty tools and plenty of protection for your home and yourself, In steamy quarters, tile needs to stand up to all that water and vapor in style. The bag says Mapei floortile mortar, it was the only unmodified thinset at our hardware store. Kerdi membrane can be used on cement board, drywall, and, as you may have guessed- greenboard. (3ft-3in wide)Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving . x 96 in. Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. He would take his rough opening measurement and subtract the thicknesses of the tile, the cement board, and in his unique install method the purpleboard. The kerdi membrane will probably do the same, and its regularly installed over drywall which is probably less stable. Just wondering how effective is the tile on kerdi membrane vs the traditional cement backboard where tiles are glued directly to the drywall? This is confusing since Kerdi Board has no Kerdi on it. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. (3ft-3in wide). Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. The Schlter system tends to be more durable than a cement board, but it also depends on the particular application and the weather. Finally, make sure to select a thinset that is appropriate for the job, check the manufacturers recommendation, and always follow the instructions on the product label. Following the correct application of Kerdi membrane over cement board will ensure a successful waterproofing installation and lasting results for your tile project. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. Install the Schluter Kerdi membrane over the backer board using the correct mortar. We just went through a learning curve on the Kerdi and Hardi. Schulter Ditra is manufactured by Schluter Systems and is a 1/8 thick polyethylene uncoupling membrane that is specifically designed for tile installations. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. Thanks Paul! I'm thirsty. How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? This product is available in 3/16", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" 3/4", 1" 1-1/2" and 2" thicknesses, allowing for a wide variety of installation options. There is no cutting or fitting of boards, and a mortar bed is good for leveling and flattening uneven or out-of-level floors, which are common in old houses. Kerdi board, on the other hand, is an extruded polystyrene foam panel. What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? It could take longer if the space is particularly wet or humid. Cut the shower tray to size. If you want a cement board, use Durock or Wonderboard. Can I install Kerdi board just on the walls of my shower and use a PVC membrane on the floor? The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Cement board sucks up the moisture and as a result, the kerdi doesn't always stick as well to cement board. I will say that to is easier to put the membrane over drywall than cement board. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? Cross your fingers and hope it's all OK. Not the best Kerdi Showcase. Hello D Zak! We are DIYers who have already remodeled one bathroom successfully, but this is our first time using The Schluter shower system. Schluter-KERDI is a pliable, sheet-applied, bonded waterproof membrane and vapor retarder with limited crack-bridging capabilities. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. . A good rule of thumb is 24 hours per inch of thickness, then one more day on top of that to be sure. Schluter approves their waterproof Kerdi membrane over drywall. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. Using self-leveling underlayment takes careful prep work. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. The great thing about Kerdi Board is that it is lightweight and easier to maneuver. While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. The waterproof membrane isn't a substitute for the substrate. First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. Not to mention, its warrantied by Schluter, giving you the ultimate peace of mind. Overall, putting Kerdi over regular drywall can be done, with the proper steps in place to properly install the membrane and its components. If you want added info there's an old Kerdi thread here. document.getElementById("ak_js_1").setAttribute("value",(new Date()).getTime()); Your email address will not be published. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. We sponge water onto the cement board. Actually if you watch any pros work (not on crappy shows) on TV you will see them use backer board 99% of the time. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. Cement board (cbu) is not waterproof, but is not damaged by being wet. Press the Kerdi Membrane into the Thinset Mortar with firm, even pressure to achieve full mortar coverage. To prevent those movements from transferring to the tile floor, consider installing an uncoupling membrane between the concrete and tile surfaces. It is a fast process that is hard to mess up if you do it right. Gettin' a little delirious. Anyone who has done more than 1 shower shouldn't start without knowing that. As a contractor, I have been using Kerdi since it came out. Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. Shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or so. This will ensure that the coating sticks to the cement board. While cement board is a reliable tile underlayment, it isnt completely waterproof only water-resistant. It is easier to cut than cement board, it is mold resistant, and it has a built-in moisture barrier. I've never had a failure. This liquid waterproofing solution does more than keep water away, it also promotes tile adhesion and prevents cracking. Furthermore, if you're working in an older home KERDI-BOARD fits better than cement board in odd spaces.

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