old belgian gun makers

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Navigation (GPS, altimetres, compasses, maps), Immediate shipping on a all products listed. To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. Closset J.M. ArmsCollectors.com Collectable Firearms Forums Modern, antique and collectable firearms, questions answered, gun & militaria related items. The inspectors mark is still an secret so the list here should be regarded as uncertain, but it can in some cases give a more accurate dating that the stamps. See Kennett's # 2 and # 9 above. JavaScript is disabled. Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! Ithaca Gun Company: One of America's most successful gun makers. I can't find any other mumbers on the gun other than the multiple proof markings that I will post later. The earliest 3D-printed guns were crude single-shot devices. The book The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Bischop Pierre You can tell an unaltered pin-fire by the vertical slot in the breech extending to the top of the barrel (and, of course, the absence of a firing pin). But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. manufacturers identifying marks, more commonly referred to as Proof Marks, Arsenal or Inspector Marks Thanks again for the help! Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. weapon. #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. the 20th century. Flintlock fowling pieces and rifles were made for the Northwest Indian trade until the early twentieth century; so, too, percussion long guns for sale in Africa. Clment Walter . B. Tradename on guns made in Belgium, c.1900. Just re-visiting this thread to see if there is any new insight on the symbol "E" in the triangle on the side of the breech. The only other markings I have seen are along the length of thr barrel \ \/ | . But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. Comblain H. J. The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. Collings Hadelin 4 0 obj He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. Second Variation serial numbers 707517-851751 (7,000 produced) - 708921. I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. Today, quality 12-gauge field grade guns from all the American makers during this era can be found and purchased for less than $1,000. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. proof marks. We have just started to assemble this on going source of Proof Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking. Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. "Cueruy" could be the maker. A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. Some older foreign manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a location, rather than a manufacturer. In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. Boden cases. for exports be able towithstand a proscribed load without damage. gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. Burlet Condition Grading Definitions For Antique Firearms, This website may not (Six volumes by alphabetical order), Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1. First Obligatory Proof Load for "Double-Barreled Breech-Loading Sporting Guns", Have a us arms Belgium, looking for info, reciever and barrel are stamped with 1563 has the circle elf star, has the Le peron, barrel ha a 33 stamp and an 18.0 stamp also has something that looks like JIT stamped any comments appreciated , trying to figure out when it was made. Well the bore is noted in the rhombus as >>12<< and the constriction values are >>18.2/18.2<< & >>17.3/18.2<< so with those it has to be a 12 bore. How do I price this piece? Charlier Ch. It's complete. Closset Louis - Remy Hubert below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. Any help would be appreciated. Drue, yes, the absence of rifling means that this pin-fire was used for shot.Pin-fires represent an important stage in the development of firearms. Worldwide Logistics for all your products. There's no indication of chamber length--but that didn't begin until 1892.The other marks I can't identify.So what can I tell you? That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! No maker's name anywhere? The first on the left and the fourth (the one that resembles a candlestick)indicate provisional proof. It is was built using a very thick It is a hammer back breakaway 12 gauge side by side. Miscellaneous for identifying the acceptance and proof marks as it appears, many cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and Bernard Alphonse Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). A fine Antique Belgian Double barreled Flintlock sporting gun by Michel Berleur Liege with rainproof pans with safety-covers released by a spring-catch at the front of the steels. We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). If 'JF' it could be Janssen Fils or Frres. Belgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 preBelgium double barrel 16 Gauge SN 13938 pre 1898 fine old Belgium imported exposed hammer shotgun, Leige proofed, floral engraved receiver showing some; FINE 19C. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. Thanks Brandon. 254.541.2985 John Hille, john@jhille.com. Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . Where did you find the Falla mark? Judging by the comments that appeared when I Googled "spesco corporation," your guess is on target. Berleur Michel JavaScript is disabled. Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. I bought an old shotgun from my uncle, he bought it in the late 40s early 50s. Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! HI, John. and an eagles head. In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. + 10-14% by piezoelectric transducer measurement. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . He received his technical training in Soest and then in Warstein. Hand Guns 17 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . Can you send me some, Ed? Belgian Liege gunmakers Proof Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. 1899-2011 Modern Guns. - Galoppin Rifles & Musket Information. Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Designates rifled barrel. Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). Collette Lopold The IZh motorcycles and automobiles are manufactured by. After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. Wish I could be more helpful! Bultot Jean Measuring the bore diameter and chamber ~JP2lLn)wMO(;%vvRnS>2sw~zG!D""L0MW#+J%d)g"#Q4H&D4&KdU_};g|CN>Is>X&'vqFc&Pkr3EjZ1M&|dv55*6GI?/cOra#2K;cW>rLFtgtycw^4RiK-myVS[${XZw ho"=^f%DeiG wPnD6#diqSg].GI24?>.0 ?~wXy$6Sd3Ln2IdLL_#6)G7OE)7igF. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. On barrels of muzzleloading guns that has passed a re-enforced black powder proof. Any ideas as to date range? The third is a plain stamp, with the letters A.V.E. Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource Order this book online and pay it through On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. Baltus - Wilmotte The crown R and star P stamped on the barrel, receiver, and cylinder. Bouquin Ad Behr Jean jacques A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns Due to the Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. Sorry! Prices: side-by-side, from 53,000 + VAT; over-and-under, from 65,000 + VAT. with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. Courard N. The size of this book of 232 pages 1860-1870. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). The "D.D. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. Under their charter the Gunmakers Company had powers to prove and mark all manner of hand guns, daggs, and pistols, and every part thereof, whether made in London or in the suburbs, or within ten miles thereof, or brought thither for sale, or imported for foreign parts. Some older foreign Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. Information, NRA On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". Rich engraved. Jun 21, 2012. Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. The idea behind such a test is to verify the strength of the barrel, breech and firing system of a firearm by deliberately firing an over-pressured cartridge. Carl, I've checked Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks as well as those listed at Cornell Publications, and came up empty handed. Bernimolin Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. Thanks for any help you can offer.Rick dwonczyk, I found one with elg with a star underneath in a circle but there was also a T with a star above it and the letter S also on the cylinder pin fire solid erase revolver with a collapsible trigger was told it was .31, Hi, Rick. The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. Pistol made in Belgium, as you know. Ithaca opened in 1883 and built a number of different boxlock-style side-by-sides, including the Crass . The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. By 1931, Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre in Herstal, Belgium (FN) launched an even smaller .25 ACP pistol developed by the company's chief designer, Dieudonn Saive. x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. I recently decided to clean it up. As for proof marks, the oval with E/LG/* inside makes it indeed Belgian. The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. A "Greener" double? Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. The Modern Shotgun. St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. There's no indication of gauge. ]v8 >ZX 2Fu}) The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. 1840-1860. We provide antique gun prices and pictures of each antique firearm we sell. Arnold Mathias I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. acknowledge the testing - called "Proof Marks". On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! The same stamp but smaller is found on Flobert guns, selfloading pistols with a excess proof pressure of 50%, on barrels of top break guns for Flobert or revolvers cartridges an excess pressure of 30% and or revolvers which are proofed with 30-50% excess loads. A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. that we have found on this subject. JavaScript is disabled. I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. These are original antique muzzleloaders that are made by individual gunsmiths or small manufacturing concerns, usually prior to the era of mass production, but sometimes well into the mid-19th century. I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. The Serial Numbers. To make purchases and use the full site services, register or login your account. As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. Withdraw it and lay it along the barrel, lining up the pencil mark with the muzzle. are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Very helpfull once again. As I've said, I'm not an expert. Based only on the pictures, those barrels do not appear to be Damascus. interlaced, and surmounted by a crown. Comblain CLIMAS Tradename used by J. Stevens Arms Co. on guns. Long Beach, CA: Safari Press, 2000. The 1KG 545 is the barrel weight in grams. R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. We have provided you Tullea three spiked crown or mitre above a capital E (as shown below). A strong good product that will last for long usage in your referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", Measure your Cogswell and it should be about that.The barrels are 32" and the gun weighs approx 73/4 lbs. manufactured firearms, such as pistols from Spain and Italy, will list a The 1136 is engraved on the bottom of the barrel. These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. I'll test it very cautiously. Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . If you can, send me a photo: ghcox3@gmail.com.Best,Gerry, Gerry;I just sent you a photo of what I believe are the proof marks of a Belgium made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Bookmark This includes many fine Browning A5 shotguns and the Superposed shotgun. (most sales were in the 1930s). The Belgian-made Auto-5 gets more accolades, but the Miroku A-5 is the better gun. Midway USA sells a CO2 kit to unload both flint and percussion guns.Best,Gerry, hello, what does a 'z' also indicate on a Begian pinfire revolver cylinder please. The fourth the crossed branches, with the letters S.E.E., and a cross in their angles. The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time. Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. firearms. Email: Info@hlebooks.com Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. Bernard Lambert If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. 1870-1898. If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. Your help is appreciated. Belgian Arms cie Any idea what it all means? Cap Joseph Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every Thanks so much. We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. Bury Jules. They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. I have pictures If you need them. 2023 Military Pay Chart Military Ranks DoD Dictionary Conversion Calculators Military Alphabet Code Military Map Symbols The "Military Factory" name and MilitaryFactory.com logo are registered U.S. trademarks protected by all applicable domestic and international intellectual property laws. Project Upland. Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. The famous "hump back" was made in countless configurations and gauges. This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. to share our findings by this means of communication. reference books that display proof marks and their meanings. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Any idea how to date it? These include the date, serial number and property marks as well as various acceptance and (copy right L.R. Search. time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. Hello, I have two ELG 1136 Belgian Percussion Dueling pistols with a 6 inch barrel. This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. Gun Barrel Proof Marks. On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . OldGuns Newsletter . Colette Victor have a great day! Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? Bertrand Antoine Mauser was a late entry in 1888. it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . Ad Categories: Pre-1840. Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. Liege, in Belgium, has always been celebrated for its weapons, and established its proof house as a municipal enterprise on May 10, 1672, when it was laid down that barrels should be marked with the stamp of the city, and unproved weapons might not be sold under pain of a fine of a gold florin and the confiscation of the unproved barrel. After this, the firearm is examined to make sure it is still intact and if so, the metal (usually the barrel) is stamped with . A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Beuret Frres location, rather than a manufacturer. Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. 1860-1870. in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. Last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_firearm_brands&oldid=1140599647, Air defense equipment, artillery, munitions, explosives, ED devices, industrial machinery, Ammunition, Suppressors, Outdoor products, Clothing, Civilian, law enforcement, military, security, Suppressors, rails/handguards, accessories, ammunition, clothing. Bastin Frres In the Proof Marks; my piece has a Star P, which in the article you do not identify. it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? Post request for quotation and get multiple offers from manufacturers, 155MM HE 107 Full Zone 8 Charge with Electronic Fuze, Large quantity of surplus guns and exotic guns, BA 312 Semi-Auto Magazine Tube Tactical Shotgun, BA 912 Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto (2 Different Mold), BA 912 Special Cerakote Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto Shotgun. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. Austrian arms were marked with the double eagle, and later with the letters Wn 78; a variety of private marks of manufacturers are also in use. Clment Charles Philibert All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? What about a lightning bolt with a star above? Smith & Wesson markets gun accessories, handcuffs, safes, apparel, watches, collectibles, knives, tools, air guns, and myriad other products under its brand name, including cologne, handbags, and washing machines. wolf and human romance manga J.C. Higgins Model 31 Parts, Schematic | Numrich Gun Parts Manufacturers J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 J.C. Higgins Rifles 31 Parts List Sort by: Show Available 0 Schematic w/ Parts List 2 Driving Spring 3 Driving Spring Guide 4 Barrel 5 / 6 Bolt 8 Buttplate Screw 9 Buttplate Trim 10 Cartridge Lifter 11 Cartridge Lifter . Testing the gun Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. Misc. Bodson N. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." Forum, http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html, http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html.

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