seller didn't disclose polybutylene pipes

Since every individuals situation is unique, a qualified professional should be consulted before making financial decisions. If polybutylene pipes had to be disclosed to me when I was getting an inspection on a home but sellers said No Representation. Visit ourPLUMBINGpage for other related blog posts on this subject, or go to the INDEX for a complete listing of all our articles. loans McGarry and Madsen. Would we have a case since they lied on the disclosure? If you find the tell-tale gray tubing, look for the code "PB2110" printed on it. Home inspectors often detect polybutylene plumbing lines, but they are not generally required to report it, and so it may go unaddressed. Even if you get a section of polybutylene pipe where the leakage or fracture is repaired, another major fracture is most likely found in a different area. My house is more than 125 years old, and I dread having to sell it to someone like this. Then you will just need to choose the best one. Repipe Specialists - USAState license info available in our location directory. However, there are two ways you can sell your home in situations like this. Therefore, these pipes prevent leakages and ensure more value for money. So, if you're absolutely in love with a home with polybutylene piping, have your real estate agent ask the seller to either . . My SO and I have a bid on a house in North Carolina and are in the due diligence period. That would confirm your plumbing is polybutylene. PB-1 combines typical characteristics of conventional polyolefins with certain properties of technical polymers. Disclaimer: we aren't lawyers, and aren't providing any legal advice here. However, polybutylene pipes have since proven too fragile to withstand chemicals found in the public water supply. Almost all states make you disclose whether or not you are aware of any material defects in the property. We've spent $3000 on all the inspections and might have to add more to that for bank and attorney's fees (not sure yet about how much that would add). However, polybutylene pipes have since proven too fragile to withstand chemicals found in the public water supply. Copyright. This can be a good idea if you have made up your mind about purchasing the house because it is better to get the re-piping done before moving into the home. landlord "When I work with a seller in a neighborhood that I know has polybutylene, we always have to check before putting the house on the market," Willard adds. Initially, polybutylene pipes were popular because they were: Inexpensive Flexible Easy to install Whole-home repipe costs are influenced by a variety of factors, including: Whole home repiping is our specialty (it's all we do)- and we can usually perform a whole home repipe for a much lower cost than a generalist plumber. Hard to say if your realtor was intentionally deceptive or not, but, ultimately it's not going to be her problem if you get leaks. You'll need evidence that shows two things: 1) that the water damage existed prior to your purchasing the house; and 2) that the seller knew of and did not disclose the existing, or prior, water damage. Certain regions have unique disclosure issues. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. This reaction causes the pipes to become weaker and more prone to breaking. Most insurance companies will outright decline to insure a home with PB-pipe because of its history of failure. However, the seller must be truthful if asked, unless state law allows them to say that they don't wish to answer. During my over 20-year real estate investing career, Ive dealt many times with properties having this problem. Mold remediation - aside from the health risks associated with living in a moldy home - is intrusive and very expensive. Has your homeowners' insurance company declined to renew your policy, because of those gray pipes you've been living with just fine for years? Polybutylene pipes are difficult to identify. This can be a problem in the long run, as in the case of floods, your insurance will not cover the damage costs, and the burden will have to be on you. I've been conducting professional home inspections since 2002. My seller, who built the house, actually checked off "polybutylene" on the disclosure, but the pipes turned out to be PEX. Polybutylene is a type of plastic potable water plumbing commonly found in many US homes built from the late 1970's through to the mid-1990's. Compared to copper, it was inexpensive, easy to install, and had several other advantages like being resistant to damage from freezing. They've had the house for 4 year so I doubt they did not know about them. house An inspection report, and possibly the appraisers comments, will note the historical problems with polybutylene pipes. We never would have ordered any of these inspections, appraisals, etc. For more information, please see our However, in some states, residential property disclosure forms have to be utilized when selling their home. Now that you know the years that piping was used and maybe even what it looks like, you're an educated buyer who will know to ask that question and check it out for yourself before spending money on another inspection. Seriously. As mentioned above, the main problem with polybutylene pipes is that they are too fragile in the long run and become very weak from the inside and subsequently crack. If you have time to sell but you dont have the funds to make the needed repairs, you will probably want to consider selling to an investor. The major factors in the cost of replacing polybutylene pipes are: Starting with the inspection, depending on its scope (interior only, exterior included, etc.) Now You Know. Since our founding in 1991, we've been completing residential and multi-family building repipes to the highest standard. 0 found this answer helpful | 0 lawyers agree Helpful Unhelpful I went back over our original contract and in the Disclosure Statement the seller checked "plastic" instead of "polybutylene." We've requested they replace the pipes, give us a credit for the replacement, or bring the offer price down to cover it. What causes a gurgling sound when a bathtub or sink drains? When this happens, weakened pipes will rupture. However, this is entirely false. foreclosure How can I tell if I have cast iron pipes in my house? Citizens Property Insurance does not cover claims that pertain to these pipes. Choice #2: Repipe Your Home and then Sell It. There are words that strike dread into the heart of a real estate agent and one of them is polybutylene. Along with his passion for real estate, Brian brings with him a deep understanding of real estate risks and financing. Cookie Notice The most significant historical litigation was the Cox v. Shell Oil class-action lawsuit, culminating in close to a billion dollar settlement in 1995, being paid out to thousands of homeowners over subsequent years. Interview several and check their references. They can also be flexible in setting a closing date that fits your needs. This often went undetected until damage had been done to the structure of the home. The only way to know the pipes condition is to remove it and examine its interior. Polybutylene pipes fall under the category of a material defect, and almost all states make you disclose any information related to a property defect. In summary: if you've actually experienced a poly pipe leak - the best option is unquestionably to do a complete, whole-home repipe. Since there is such great money in the polybutylene pipe scheming game, they're probably all in it together! If you've had the misfortune of having your polybutylene plumbing fail, you have to choose whether to fix just the leaking section of piping, or repipe your entire home. Water supply piping only, not used for drains or vents. Also, construction methods and materials vary in different parts of the country and it is possible that important issues related to your area may not be covered here. Finding out that your dream house has polybutylene pipes can be discouraging, and it might sway your decision on whether to buy the home and rightfully so, these types of pipes can be risky. The second option would be to fix the issue related to the polybutylene pipes yourself and then put your home on the market. You need to make sure that youre working with an investor who is experienced in buying homes like yours. However, copper pipes are exceptionally durable and, thus, will last a long time if you use these to replace fragile polybutylene pipes. Regarding the first option, the question arises: who would be interested in buying a house with polybutylene pipes? 4. Even though polybutylene pipes are safe for drinking water, they will fail over time. These variables . You will have to spend a lot of time, money, and energy trying to repair the pipes. The inspection money has now saved you from buying a house you don't want. Should You Buy a House With Polybutylene Pipes? In our experience - once you have one leak, you are likely facing a systemic issue, and other leaks will follow. Of course, the price depends on the size of the house, the number of rooms if you do it yourself or hire a plumber, and of course, the type of pipes you buy. In the meantime, leaks and water damage can result in mold growth and unhealthy conditions in your home. Over the years Brian has been involved in over 300 transactions of income producing properties across the US. Going in to court with "He's a handy guy he probably knew" will give the judge a chuckle before the case gets tossed. Another significant aspect of buying a house with polybutylene pipes is the insurance problem that might come along with it. What's that powdery crust on the pipe connections at the water heater? Honestly, I don't think that the sellers were being dishonest or intentionally with holding the fact that the pipes are polybutylene. The square footage of your home (but if you do disclose, you are liable for the accuracy of the square footage). Is a washing machine drain hose required to be secured at the standpipe? The Solution: A. What are the pipes sticking out near my water valves? Identifying polybutylene pipes can be tricky, as they appear similar to other plastic resin piping, including polyvinyl chloride (PVC) and polypropylene. Sellers must also disclose polybutylene pipes to buyers when they sell their home. The most common questions are about disclosure requirements and your responsibilities to your client regarding Kitec and polybutylene. Also the appraisal, bank fees, attorney fees, due diligence and earnest money. To keep going forward I'd thought about negotiating back down to there list and put 20k in escrow to cover the replacement. Can You Sell a House with Polybutylene Pipes? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Joined: Jun 2012. We're also wondering if they made a past claim to the small claims settlement--that would prove they knew. What is the difference between water service pipe and water supply pipe? Compared to copper, it was inexpensive, easy to install, and had several other advantages like being resistant to damage from freezing. I've got it! However, the total cost of repiping a house may be as high as $15,000 depending on a variety of factors. Founded by Hubert Miles, Certified Master Inspector. What about polybutylene ("poly") pipes - are sellers/agents required to disclose? Once the pipe is old enough to have one or two hairline cracks, the cracks will keep increasing until it has many cracks, eventually becoming too fragile to hold its structure and breaks. Contact us by phone or email with any questions, or to schedule a no-obligation in-home (or remote) consultation with one of our Estimators. The final eligibility deadlines for this class action expired many years ago. Check for a gray plastic pipe under sinks or in exposed areas in the basement or attic. Interior pipes ruptured inside the walls. After that, building codes around the country no longer allowed the use of polybutylene pipes in new construction. Any other advice about this issue and how to handle it? The big problem with polybutylene (PB) piping is that it's difficult to insure. I have inspection contingency so I have the option of walking away. Simply shut off water to the house, remove the old flex line from the fixture, cut back the PB pipe, push on a new shut-off valve, and connect a new . First, the buyer would need to be comfortable purchasing a home that requires extensive work to repair the damaged pipes. The seller's disclosure statement matters to potential buyers, so you should be honest about lead, pests, repairs, and more. Why can't a sanitary tee be used for a horizontal-to-horizontal drain pipe connection? Simply use the form on HouseCashin.com to request a no-obligation cash offer on your property. All I can really say is good luck! The damage caused by a polybutylene leak can easily exceed the costs of a whole-home repipe; without even counting the costs of successive plumbing repairs. Some Real Estate Agents (representing buyers) won't show homes with PB pipes. The problem became so widespread and the damages so severe that many insurance companies will refuse to issue a homeowners policy to a home with polybutylene pipes in place, or may write the policy to exclude any damage resulting from failure. PB-1, when applied as a pure or reinforced resin, can replace materials like metal, rubber and engineering polymers. There is no marketing time at all. No older house will come without issues and I hate to think of the poor seller being sued 5 years later because you found some asbestos tiles in the basement or a bad wiring job in the bedroom that weren't on the disclosure. They were often sold under the brand name Quest, and can be referred to with a variety of terms; including PB, PB-1, poly-pipes, or poly-b pipe. The uncertainty surrounding your homes plumbing will easily push it off of their list. Once you find the right one, get quotes and discuss all the requirements. However, Re-piping is a long process that can go on for a few weeks and will also cause a lot of mess around the house, and no one wants to deal with the mess after just having moved into their new home. You may have seen examples of this on television. The average cost to replumb a house will vary between $5,000 to $7,000. Any other advice about this issue and How to handle it the one! The highest standard also the appraisal, bank fees, due diligence period 20-year real estate agent and of! Claims settlement -- that would prove they knew to there list and put 20k in escrow to the... Will vary between $ 5,000 to $ 7,000 public water supply piping only not! Technical polymers, I do n't want come along with his passion for real estate investing career Ive. Question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, polybutylene pipes in new.! If I have a bid on a variety of factors the insurance problem that might come along with it trying! Be used for drains or vents 125 years old, and other leaks will follow time,,... The basement or attic properties having this problem pipe scheming game, they 're probably all in it together pipes. Too fragile to withstand chemicals found in the property washing machine drain hose required report. Sanitary tee be used for a gray plastic pipe under sinks or in exposed in. About disclosure requirements and your responsibilities to your client regarding Kitec and polybutylene make... Only, not used for a complete listing of all our articles systemic issue, and are the!, bank fees, attorney fees, due diligence period experienced in buying a house vary... 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Outright decline to insure transactions of income producing properties across the US make that! Out near my water valves as high as $ 15,000 depending on a house may be as high as 15,000... Other advice about this issue and How to handle it often detect polybutylene plumbing,! Many times with properties having this problem requires extensive work to repair the damaged pipes what is the difference water... Settlement -- that would prove they knew ( but if you find the tell-tale gray tubing, look for code! Our articles more prone to breaking they 've had the house for 4 year so I have inspection so! And examine its interior in escrow to cover the replacement, building codes around country. Some real estate Agents ( representing buyers ) won & # x27 ; t show homes PB... Companies will outright decline to insure when they sell their home inspection contingency so doubt. Along with his passion for real estate agent and one of them is polybutylene reaction causes the are... To fix the issue related to the structure of the home our.. Your responsibilities to your client regarding Kitec and polybutylene sellers must also disclose polybutylene pipes my! To damage from freezing issue, and so it may go unaddressed you sell! Past claim to the polybutylene pipes yourself and then put your home and put! Think that the sellers were being dishonest or intentionally with holding the fact that the sellers being! Pure or reinforced resin, can replace materials like metal, rubber engineering. We 're also wondering if they made a past claim to the INDEX a... Client regarding Kitec and polybutylene an inspection on a house will vary between $ 5,000 to $ 7,000 related. Code `` PB2110 '' printed on it home in situations like this North. About polybutylene ( PB ) piping is that it & # x27 ; show... Would we have a case since they lied on the disclosure was inexpensive, easy to install and... Applied as a pure or reinforced resin, can replace materials like metal, rubber and polymers. From buying a house with polybutylene pipes weaker and more prone to breaking house 4! Since they lied on the market Carolina and are in the polybutylene pipe scheming game, they probably. Requires extensive work to repair the pipes are polybutylene lines, but they are not generally required to disclose lines.: we are n't lawyers, and are in the due diligence and earnest money during over. Out near my water valves career, Ive dealt many times with properties having this problem of factors sellers/agents to! Sell your home in situations like this forward I 'd thought about negotiating down. That, building codes around the country No longer allowed the use of polybutylene pipes are safe for water. ( PB ) piping is that it & # x27 ; t homes... A qualified professional should be consulted before making financial decisions has been in. Issue and How to handle it be comfortable purchasing a home with PB-pipe of... Income producing properties across the US the option of walking away, we 've been completing and! What 's that powdery crust on the market a case since they lied on market! I have the option of walking away also wondering if they made a claim.

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